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In an overcrowded world of fashion choice, just off the top of my head I can think of Black Milk, What Katie Did, Kitten d’Amour, L’ecole des Femmes, even some old Mambo stuff second hand. But look, Wheels & Dollbaby has always been a bit special. Across the road there in Sydney at the time, opposite Route 66, dressing people such as Deborah Harry, Dita von Teese, Scarlett Johansson, Kate Moss, Jerry Hall … Please make welcome the grunginista, who’s always fashion forward, Melanie Greensmith.

We’re not retail, we’re vibe, we’re hanging’ out…

Melanie Greensmith

Mel: Oh, hello, that was a nice introduction!

Maynard: You deserved a great introduction, because we thought you were gone. In 87 you set up there in Hay Street in Perth, you brought the whole thing to Sydney and then off you went in 2017. We thought we weren’t going to see you again, but you’re back!

Mel: I know I’m back! Well, I needed a break. I thought I deserved a holiday after 30 years.

Maynard: I would have thought that a lot of people in retail would’ve thought they needed a break, and just gone away because retail is tough.

Mel: Yeah, but we are not retail. We are Vibe. We’re hanging out.

Maynard: You’ve been making stuff. I like the fur coats you’ve been putting out.

Mel: They’re pretty glam, aren’t they? Very popular.

Maynard: I like the colours you come up with too. The “Elizabeth Taylor Eyes” one, that’s a nice name for a colour.

Mel: Oh yeah, lilac, her eyes were supposedly lilac. I’ve always thought that’s amazing.

Maynard: Why did you decide to get into selling fashion? People could love you this week and hate you next week. To be in it as long as you were in it, and people never went “Oh, that’s just so done”. How did you manage that from 87 onwards?

Mel: Oh gosh, I don’t know. I mean, it really all just came from a scene, you know, an organic scene that was happening in Surry Hills. When I went to live there, it was myself and all my friends. I just wanted to make stuff for band members and my friends, which is what I started doing. And then people liked it and I thought, well, shit, I’m not really qualified to do anything, I can’t get a job. And so I started the tiny shop. Well, the first one was in Perth, and I used to have The Johnnys come in and The Damned, and everyone that came to Perth came there, and it was just a little office upstairs in Hay street. So I thought, wow, I think I’m gonna go to the Big Smoke, I’m gonna go to Sydney. So I went there, and we all lived in this huge artist kind of house on Cleveland Street. Tex Perkins lived there, Stu Spasm, myself, Brett Ford who’s no longer with us. It was pretty crazy. I was like the Straight Nanna in all of them.

Maynard: You were the Straight Nanna???

Mel: Compared to those guys, yeah …

Maynard: That’s true. And Tex did what you told him to do? That’s amazing!

Mel: No, I don’t know about that! I remember they were actually a bit older than me, Tex wasn’t, but all the rest of the guys were. I guess I kind of learned a lot about music and arts from them, and it was a great scene then, you know, we all used to go to the Trade Union Club and all those old pubs and it was grungy. You know, it’s funny when I look at Surry Hills now, I think, oh my God, it’s so “tres bourgeois”, you know.

Maynard: You even had an office there in Crown Street and when you left Sydney, you must have sold it, and you could have bought the whole of the Northern Territory with the amount of money you would’ve got for that, the way prices went up in Sydney, it’s insane.

Mel: I had a flat there as well. So what we used to do was live above the office, you know, and just walk down every day, which was great fun. But that was later on. In the beginning, it was no money, it was living out the back of the shop. Sydney was pretty straight when I got there fashion wise, you know, everyone was wearing Dr Marten shoes, Levis and a white Hanes t-shirt and I’d just got back from London. And I was just like, whoa, you know, this is so straight and boring.

Maynard: There would’ve been a lot of shoulder pads going on at that time too.

Mel: Yeah! And so when I opened my little store, people had never seen stuff here like that: cowboy boots with spiderwebs on them and rubber dresses. I had no money so I bought these big Elvis towels and put them all around the top of the store just to get the “fit out” as they say now. And I collaborated a lot with a lot of the artists in those days, which was great fun. A guy called Stuart Spasm from Lubricated Goat, I don’t know if you’ve heard of him. Oh yeah.

Maynard: Oh yeah, everybody has seen them performing naked on I think it was Blah Blah Blah. That was a top track.

Mel: Exactly. They were the guys that I lived with. Stuart was a fantastic artist and I said to him, one day, ah, Stuart, I want a logo, could you draw me something? And so we were sitting there and he said, well, what do you want it to be like? And I said, well, as I love Rose Tattoo, I kind of want it to be tattoo-y. So he drew the logo originally, and that was in about 1985, I think.

Maynard: When did the first overseas visiting rock artists suddenly want to wear your stuff? Did you approach them? How did that happen?

Mel: Well, they used to come to the store. I was very lucky in the fact that before all of the nasty stuff with Michael Jackson, he was the biggest star in the world. And he was driving up Crown Street to get from the airport, which they all did in those days, and he came in.

Maynard: And he was probably driving himself too. He’d probably just hired a Ford Focus and was driving that up Crown Street, you know, bipping the horn, waving at people. He was all over the place.

Mel: He had a few security with him, I remember that. And so he bought a jacket and they all followed from that, it was a big thing.

Maynard: So I put it out to the public on my Facebook page and my Twitter page that I was going to be having a chat to you and lots of great questions came in. They want to know who has been your most favourite celebrity to dress and been the most fun. I would guess it might be Dita, but there might be other ones. And of course, people want to know who is the most difficult one as well.

Mel: The most fun one and a big thing for me was Bob Dylan.

Maynard: His bum would have a lot of trouble in some of your dresses.

Mel: No, no, no! I was doing lots of really cool leather and suede pants, and I was doing jackets for guys and shirts. He came in, I actually thought he was a bum when he came in, because he was kind of disguised and it was late at night and I thought, oh God no. Anyway, and then as I looked closer, it was Bob Dylan.

Maynard: It’s Bob Dylan, wow! Great to see him … hope he doesn’t sing those songs from that Christian album, but still great to see him.

Mel: So he was amazing, and so much fun and stayed for hours. Signed my guitar that I later sold, which I wish I bloody didn’t cos apparently he never signs anything for anyone. So he was fantastic. But the most difficult, you know, I might have caught her on a bad day …

Maynard: Shall we use the word “versnickety”? That’s a good word.

Mel: Oh! That’s a good word.

Maynard: Yes, versnickety. Anyway, this person was versnickety because perhaps they were on a versnickety day.

Mel: Yes. Well, that was Pink.

Maynard: Wow, really? Perhaps under the weather or on a busy schedule or didn’t have the right size.

Mel: Well, I don’t know. Mark and I were invited to go and meet her. I took her big bags of clothes and I was super excited. She’d even covered “I Touch Myself”. So, you know, I thought, well, that’s cool. And not a word. She just stood there and it was so awkward …

Maynard: Here’s a lovely bag of free stuff from my label and then nothing. Wow. That is a bit odd. You would at least politely accept it.

Mel: Yeah. She was hard work. That stands out in my mind. The other one that is a bit difficult, but great, is Courtney Love.

Maynard: Depending on the day, I guess, with that one.

Mel: I think so. Yeah.

Maynard: Well, how come you’ve kept coming back with Dita von Teese collaborations, particularly with a jumper too. Because when I think of her, I think of her leather gear, her glamour gear. I don’t always think of a nice cardigan.

Mel: Yeah, I know, but it really works. I met her with Marilyn Manson in London, I can’t remember the year, God it was a long time ago, maybe 15 years ago. And I met her, we were staying at the same hotel and I said, oh, why don’t we collaborate? And she was a big star, she was just heading off. She said, oh, sure, okay. So we did. And I thought what a great idea to do, like a fifties style sweater girl cardigan for her. And we did, and the rest is history. We’ve done 27 colours now together and we became friends. It’s fun. And when we did a box and it comes in the box and the girls collect them and some of them, I see them on eBay and the money they go for, I’m like, oh my God!

Maynard: Yes, the second hand market for Wheels & Dollbaby …

Mel: They’re like Barbie dolls Maynard! Kids used to collect all the Barbie dolls.

Maynard: Yes! Did you like her brunette friend that would come to visit? I saw some 1960s Barbie dolls when I was in Melbourne and all the things you could get for them, just amazing. Is there a typical Wheels & Dollbaby? You have used some of the models you used to use back in the the 2010s. In fact behind me now I’m actually looking at the Australian Fashion Week Wheels & Dollbaby Parade 2009 in Sydney with the rock and roll band playing above. Probably Mark in the band, I suspect.

Mel: I think it was Mark and Roddy Radar.

Maynard: It’s on Fashion TV, and you’re back to back with Morrissey Edmiston or something like that. Very different type of parade, very different look.

Mel: Well, you know, I find all those shows dreadfully boring, unless you are looking at one of the couture houses from France and they do that incredibly well. I just think they’re boring. I like to have the music with it because it’s more of a show. It’s more exciting.

Maynard: It’s kind of obvious, isn’t it? Do you think some labels are worried about linking themselves too closely with music? Because it can go out of fashion really quickly too.

Mel: Maybe. I don’t know. Have the Rolling Stones gone out of fashion? Not really.

Maynard: Well, they can get as old as they like, and they’ll still pull a crowd.

Mel: Because they’re fantastic.

Maynard: Where did you sit within the industry? Because you’ve got a very distinct look. I think, Oh, that’s a Wheels & Dollbaby thing. It’s never been met with “meh”. The best present, Wheels & Dollbaby dresses. Great present.

Mel: Well, we didn’t really sit within the Australian fashion industry, you know. I mean we did on and off, we were chic one time, then we weren’t and then we might be again. It didn’t really bother me because that wasn’t really what I was striving for.

Maynard: That’s why I thought you might have got a bit of resentment because you were apart from them and you were able to continue on year after year and do your stuff.

Mel: I don’t know, maybe. We went to London in 2008, and we just killed it. Absolutely killed it. And it felt great that we hadn’t had to take the normal path. The road less travelled.

Maynard: What do you think is your favourite piece you’ve ever sold or made? I loved all the emerald stuff there, the years you had the emerald lace. That was great. Which is your favourite piece?

Mel: I remember I had a buyer in from David Jones and she was just shopping and she said, You know what? We spend thousands on marketing and trying to work out how to keep a man in a department store. Especially in the women’s department. They hate it. They leave and therefore we can’t sell lots to the girls. And she said to me, your store, every time I come in is packed with men.

Maynard: You had fantastic staff, really talented staff, really good sales people. And it was like, if you’re going along with a date, they can try on the outfits and walk around in front of you and see, and everyone can see what they liked. And you’ve got more chance of selling it. And it’s more like a show. It’s an event, you’re going somewhere.

Mel: I know, although one of my friends did say to me once, he said, Mel, your shop looks more like a bordello every time I come in.

Maynard: Well, that’s a compliment. Excuse me, a high class bordello!

Mel: Exactly. Ah, it was so much fun.

Maynard: There’s not a lot of room – get more than the dozen people in there and it would be really crowded. And even the little accessories that you were selling near the counter. That was a really good idea too. Because someone could pick something up on the way out, even if they couldn’t afford an outfit. David Jones could do that, it wasn’t just an open floor plan, maybe they could actually do something like that.

Mel: I guess it had a feel to it. People used to say that it had a great feel. And I think that is partly because it was organic and everyone did go there. It was a hangout. We used to hang out, out the back. I mean, I got to London and they had heard stories that we all smoked in the store and they were like, oh my God! And all these other sort of things that were supposedly going on there. They weren’t, you know, but it was notorious.

Maynard: That’s the kind of reputation you want. So it precedes you and people go, oh, wow. I won’t ask her about that. Did you see it? Oh, obviously she was doing that.

Mel: I was the one never doing any of it. It was everyone around me. I used to say to people, do you think I could get up every day, do this and be partying like you’re saying? There’s just no way.

Maynard: So I saw a few of the Wheels & Dollbaby crew at the Stray Cats at the Enmore one year. They certainly made themselves stand out. They were having a great time. That was the leopard print that year.

Mel: Oh well, that’s perfect with the Stray Cats. They used to come in a lot, and Brian, the singer, Brian Setzer …

Maynard: Such a babe, Brian, he’s a babe!

Mel: What a guitar player! Anyway, he had our logo tattooed on his arm and then he came back in and showed me. I was like, whoa, that’s pretty cool.

Maynard: Yeah, David Jones can’t buy that. Now the name: Wheels & Dollbaby. Just tell us where it came from, because even I didn’t know this.

Mel: Oh Maynard, you should know this.

Maynard: I knew – I just didn’t link the rock and roll thing and the iconic 60s sitcom spy comedy together.

Mel: I know. I know. So everyone, when I tell them they go, oh! They would never have thought of it, but it was Get Smart. And it was Max and 99, they were Wheels and Dollbaby, and they were beatnik and super cool. And I think Stuart (Spasm) and I were watching it, and I think we kind of came up with that. So that was where we got it.

Maynard: You could have been watching the Groovy Guru episode, with Larry Storch as the Groovy Guru and the Sacred Cows. You could have been the Sacred Cow label there. And a question that came in from Miss de Bleu, she wrote via Facebook about the Buffy the Vampire Slayer collection. Sarah Michelle Gellar was wearing Wheels & Dollbaby as Buffy in the show. How did that happen? Was someone here and they thought, that’s the look we want for Buffy?

Mel: I never met any of those people, so I think they just bought it. What’s really funny is that Mark did the theme track for Buffy.

Maynard: That’s power guitar!

Mel: Power guitar! The Macca!

Maynard: He didn’t have anything to do with their musical episodes did he? There were a couple of musical episodes that were pretty funny.

Mel: Oh no, he doesn’t do musicals, far too rock.

Maynard: Any self-respecting man who’s in a rock band, no sorry, Sound of Music, what? Sorry, no, I don’t do musicals. Of course.

Mel: What about Simon Day? I collaborated with him.

Maynard: That’s right! Simon Day! So you gave him yet more black jumpers to wear, or you taught him how to draw a cat? What was your input?

Mel: No, I met him really early. I mean, we were young, 19 or something like that. And he was like the hottest boy, you know, the hottest. All the girls wanted him and whatnot, as everyone probably knows.

Maynard: And he’s really good at looking like he doesn’t know that everybody wants him too. He’s very good at that. He could get a job at not looking like he knows he’s as popular as he is. He’s good at that.

Mel: Well that’s all the more charming, isn’t it? Yes. And so he used to come in because he was in a band with my friend who was in a band called the Kryptonics. And then I said, Hey, Simon, would you draw me – cos he’s a great artist – I said, can you draw me ribbons and lipsticks and logos? And he did. And it became our paper, our tissue paper that we still use to this day. That was Simon. Very clever.

Maynard: I don’t know if I got the answer out of you, but your favourite piece that you’ve ever designed or sold? What is it? Of all the collections, all the things, I’ve always been a fan of the simple elegance of the trench coats that you sell. They’ve got the great lining and they come in lots of great colours.

Mel: Oh, Maynard … men and trench coats!

Maynard: It’s got the spy motif going on.

Mel: Oh, you just think the girl’s got nothing on under it!

Maynard: At least you’ve got the satin lining, so there are no scratchy bits.

Mel: True. What I really love the most, I mean, my whole thing is I love to make girls feel super sexy, confident, movie star-ish and I think the fur coats do that all in one. So I kind of love a fur coat.

Maynard: And you can dress ’em up dress ’em down.

Mel: Yeah. My cat sleeps on mine. There’s all kinds of uses, but any chick puts on some really cool sunglasses and a fur coat and it’s a movie star, isn’t it?

Maynard: Yeah, you think she’s either come from somewhere exotic or she’s on her way to somewhere that you aren’t allowed to go.

Mel: Exactly. So I love those. I really love the bejewelled little play suits. Like something Dita would wear, they’re real showgirl.

Maynard: Have you got any upcoming celebrity collaborations you can spill the beans on at the moment?

Mel: Oh, well, I can’t say because then, you know!

Maynard: Do you think you would actually open a physical shop again or not? Do you think things are just a bit too “turmolic”, in too much turmoil to do that?

Mel: I will, but I’ll only do a popup, cos I really miss that whole talking with everybody, the customers. I mean, it was such a great social thing, my shop, I used to love going to work.

Maynard: But the feedback from the customers often goes, Hey, yeah, I should do this, I hadn’t thought of that, but I’ll do this bit or I’ll make that bit shorter or that, that collar winged or whatever. Did that happen?

Mel: Oh yeah, obviously, cos you’re getting direct feedback. So I would do a shop, and I love doing shop windows. I used to be just treacherous … these poor girls under me, that would help me do windows. I’d drive them mad: No! Move! That’s not right. Change an inch to the left … because that was our window to the world. But in the end, they all used to say to me, Mel, you taught me properly how to do beautiful windows.

Maynard: The Wheels & Dollbaby Crown Street store, you’d just walk past it at night and the simple neon and the lights reflecting inside of it, it was a photo opportunity. It was a selfie shot before there were selfie shots.

A chick just has to put on a fur coat and a pair of cool sunnies and she looks like a movie star.

Melanie Greensmith

Mel: Oh thanks! That’s good. My first little shop got robbed so many times and cars used to just drive in.

Maynard: Hence all the iron bars …

Mel: I know! And I’d be like, oh my God. Oh, it was terrible in those days. And it would really hit me, you know, because I didn’t have much money, and they’d just ram it, take all the leather jackets and it would be like, oh God. Okay. I mean, it must have happened four or five times. In the end I got rottweilers.

Maynard: Well, that’ll stop ’em, cos then if they get out of the car, they’re gonna have their face bitten.

Mel: I know. But can you imagine? There I was, I was like 20 or 21, just with … it wasn’t all glamour, let me tell you!

Maynard: You’ve got some sewing to do … overlocking that sort of thing.

Mel: I don’t know that I sew …

Maynard: Shhh! She’s got a lot of sewing to do, she’s very busy. So what would be the Wheels & Dollbaby song? If there’s a song that encapsulates the label, the way you feel, the way it inspires you?

Mel: Oh well, it’s the song that Mark wrote. It’s Ting Ting – It’s Wheels & Dollbaby. And it’s just a really great rock and roll, fun song that he wrote about the brand and he wrote it with a guy from the Sleepy Jackson, a guy called Jay and they recorded it for me. So I was so chuffed.

Maynard: Thank you, Melanie. And I’m looking forward to that popup shop, if you’ll let me in.

Mel: Oh, definitely!

She looks like she’s come from somewhere exotic and is going somewhere you aren’t invited

Maynard

Wheels & Dollbaby online