There’s a new Captain Scarlet and The Mysterons podcast from Luke at UFOcast. As a guest presenter (Captain Aubergine) on the latest podcast, I look into episode Operation Time, in which Captain Scarlet looks like he’s been to an all weekender Rave by the end of it.
Spooky hospital Supermarionation from Captain Scarlet
It’s Captain Aubergine, Maynard here!
First of all, there’s always that organ stab right at the beginning. When we first see that dirty back alley that Captain Scarlet hangs out in, we hear the mighty organ flourish at the beginning.
It does herald the fact that a great drama is afoot in this episode. Of course, we’ve got Dr Fawn again, wonderfully played by the Australian Charles “Bud” Tingwell, who was born in the Sydney seaside suburb of Coogee, and flew during the Second World War in the Mediterranean theatre, doing reconnaissance flights in Spitfires, Hurricanes and Mosquitoes.
And because the Mysterons just love giving the game away, they inform everybody that they’re going to KILL TIME, which confounds everybody. They even get the Spectrum computer onto it. They just put in ‘time’ as the search word. It’s a bit like putting in ‘water’. “Oh, we’ve got a lot of results for that.” In fact, they got 14 micro files of it. That much! Wonder if you can fit that on a USB?
So the Mysterons are going to kill time. Hmmm… Could mean a lot of things. They could play some experimental jazz. Read that copy of “The Wasteland” that’s been lying around the house. Or really get stuck in and fix that kitchen drawer that doesn’t close properly.
Although I guess the Mysterons could just destroy the drawer and have it rebuild itself, but that drawer probably wouldn’t close properly either, being an exact copy of an object that was broken in the first place.
The opening shot is a very, very surreal camera moving across the ceiling of an operating theatre. And there are some very scary medical looking instruments, some kids might not enjoy this.
That’s where we’re introduced to the Cerebral Pulsator. In this opening surgery scene there’s a rare shot of obvious Supermarionation strings on Dr Magnus. I’m just having a quick look at Captain Black there too. He could really use a good night’s sleep.
So they’ve got this whole thing about time. What does that mean? Is it something to do with Dave Brubeck? Is it Prince’s backing band? Is it the song from “Dirty Dancing”? They just don’t know.
And in this is a great closeup on Captain Blue. What an impeccably designed outfit by Sylvia Anderson. Really good attention to detail.
Spectrum assigns their best agents to strategic locations. Captain Blue is going to New York, Captain Grey is going to Rio de Janeiro (“Woo hoo!”). Captain Ochre is going to Moscow and Captain Scarlet assigned to London. I guess Captain Razzmatazz got sent to Weston-super-Mare. You never know, the Mysterons might go there in their downtime.
Then we see Dr Magnus leaving the hospital. He’s wearing the neurosurgeon casual look there with a strong accent on the cravat. He goes to see the General. Hit pause and have a good look at that consent form that the General signs. That is an actual consent form by look of it.
The operation looks like stereotactic surgery of the thalamus. I didn’t have the three days necessary to go to neurosurgeon school, but I’ve read it up on it and it is an operation that you do with the patient being awake under a local anaesthetic, it usually takes between two and three hours and is not often performed now because ultrasound can do the work of actually going in there and removing parts of the thalamus itself.
So this is based in a bit of reality. Someone in the Gerry Anderson studios knew their neurosurgery.
Captain Black in the orange turtleneck follows Dr Magnus after he’s had the consent form signed. What happens next I’m sure many Americans have experienced. They’re loitering at the red light. The person behind them just wants them to move because they are in a hurry and so gets out a gun and takes take a shot at them.
This whole chase scene shows Supermarionation at its best. Those trees look great. And the close ups of the two drivers, Captain Black and Dr Magnus, really build the suspense. Ah, if only the Doctor had some form of communication that was mobile in his car!
Captain Black shoots out his tire and he has a big crash. Oooh, they’ve Mysteron-ed him! Captain Black comes up behind the Mysteron-ed doctor and gives him his order to KILL TIME. Spectrum are really up against it here. We’ve got an ethereal enemy. Basically, they just put their googly eyes on something and they can make a copy of it if it’s just died, which is why there’s a grisly murder in every episode for the children.
We cut to Cloudbase where Colonel White’s having a contemplative moment looking out of the window only to be interrupted by Captain Magenta, who maybe has had a bit too much coffee. “It came to me in a flash!” There’s a WTF moment from Colonel White. You don’t get that every day.
Captain Magenta probably has been into the Mysteron champagne there by the sound of it, but he’s right. ‘Tiempo’ is Spanish for time and now Spectrum know what the jig is and they’re onto it. So Captain Magenta is the hero of the show.
Spectrum move the operation to Cloudbase. Dr Magnus starts behaving in a way you don’t want your neurosurgeon to behave before or during an operation. He turns into Dr Shirty: “Let’s get on with it.” And Dr Sweating Bullets: “Set the voltage for 1.7.” “But Doctor that’s far too high!”
And he gets his hand in front of the x-ray machine when they’re taking one of the photos of the patient, then he wants to set the Cerebral Pulsator to the ‘Let it Rip’ setting, which doesn’t make anyone suspicious whatsoever. “You sure you should do that?” “No, no, no, no. I’m setting it to 127 million, that’s just fine!”
“I’ll thank you Doctor to remember I’m performing this operation.” It’s not like I’m working for the enemy or anything. But then the radiographer sees that bare bones photo of the x-ray of Dr Magnus’ hand has turned into a full photo of his hand skin and all. Well, that’s just not right!
Dr Magnus turns up the Cerebral Pulsator to the Ozzy Osborne frequency. Meanwhile, the radiographer tries to get past Captain Magenta, whose gun by the way matches his outfit. Does Captain Scarlet’s gun match his outfit?
Because Captain Magenta has got a chip on his shoulder to start with: “Oh, Captain Magenta, right? Not Captain Red, not exciting, like Captain Scarlet. Captain Magenta!” Everyone probably makes fun of him, except Captain Ochre who probably wouldn’t make fun of him. Captain Razzmatazz certainly wouldn’t. So Captain Magenta has a lot to prove in this scene by keeping the one guy who could save the day out. Because he hasn’t got a colour. He’s just a radiographer.
Meanwhile, Dr Magnus just keeps turning up the beats per minute, like a rave from the late nineties. So has the General been killed? The operation sheets are pulled back to reveal … Captain Scarlet! Who has had his brain fried. Again.
Sometimes Colonel White gets a bit cavalier with the whole Captain Scarlet thing, doesn’t he? He could have stopped this operation before Captain Scarlet’s brain was fried, it was pretty obvious, but no, no, we just let him fry Captain Scarlet’s brain, because with his retro metabolism everything will be fine again. He won’t mind.
So Dr Magnus being the victim of a Spectrum suck-in with Captain Scarlet then bolts out of the operating theater, knocking Captain Magenta out of the way, probably making him the butt of a whole stack of other jokes. “Oh right. You stopped the radiographer, but you couldn’t stop a Mysteron. Who do you think you are? Captain Red?”
Captain Blue gets the drop on Dr Magnus in the Generator Room. Although Captain Grey did also offer to come along with Captain Blue to the Generator Room and there’d be two of them, he went “No it’s best I go alone.” Why not have two people there? Two people with guns? Although maybe it’s a good thing for Captain Grey because look what happened to the last person who went on a mission with Captain Blue. Not naming any names there.
Captain Blue throws a ladder against Dr Magnus and he falls against the high voltage wires and we have a very grisly electrocution there. The kids will love that.
At the debrief at the end, Captain Scarlet’s sitting there. Seemingly fine, although he doesn’t have any dialogue in this scene. I wonder after what’s gone on with his brain, he’s having the Homer Simpson thing, where there’s a monkey banging cymbals together in his head. And that’s all he can hear.
We’ve learned very important information from this about the Mysterons: they’re impervious to x-rays, and high voltage currents will kill them just as much as it will a human. Important information for the episodes to come.
A super scary episode, particularly for those people that aren’t good with hospitals.
The script was by Richard Conway and Steven J Mattick – they had done earlier work on the show, but I think this was their first script that was filmed. It took about two weeks to shoot, but that was about how fast the show got made. Ken Turner’s direction is great.
With those spooky operation shots of the ceiling, I’m not sure I would’ve signed that consent form.
Captain Aubergine, Maynard, Sydney Spectrum signing off!
Stereotactic thalamotomy … I’ll have two of those thank you.
Tim Ferguson & Maynard return to face their recent recriminations. Tim is making art. Maynard finds his art in a Glebe back alley. Contains occasional casual burlesque.
There’s a new Captain Scarlet and The Mysterons podcast from Luke at UFOcast. As a guest presenter (Captain Aubergine) on the latest podcast, I look into episode 2 Winged Assassin, in which Captain Scarlet attempts to save the day by driving badly and being very rude to his passenger.
Action packed Supermarionation from Captain Scarlet
I enjoy my debut as Captain Aubergine, reviewing an episode of Captain Scarlet made me look at this show that aired in the UK the same year The Beatles released their Sgt Peppers album. It screened in 1967 (55 years ago) but was set in the wildly futuristic year of 2068.
While certainly dated (a children’s show with cigarette ad billboards and multiple characters smoking) it really showcases the talent and imagination of Century 21 Television Productions. The Supermarionation of Gerry Anderson, along with Sylvia Anderson’s costume designs in all their 1960s swingin’ colours, are really on display here alongside a very dark theme of amorphous alien revenge.
Spectrum Is Green!
Watch the actual episode Winged Avenger and see if we got it right…
Captain Scarlet does a drive-by of Sonny and Skippy
Mari Wilson, 80s UK pop glamourpuss, is our guest in this possibly career defining show for Maynard. From Neasden to New York, from “Just What I Always Wanted” to “The Eyes Have It” via “Ecstasy” and much carry on over the decades, Maynard and Mari have a grand old chinwag.
Joining fellow Neasden immortals such as Twiggy, Gerry Anderson and Bob Marley… Mari Wilson still often wonders what was the deal with the Neasden Sea Scouts, as Neasden is 40 miles away from the sea.
“I’ve got a thing about Tupperware. You’ve got to know the right way to let air out of it.”
Mari Wilson – Tupperist
Mari Wilson with her 1983 Tupperware collection.
Mari working on that beehive at home. Photo by ANL/Shutterstock
Mari having a musical good time in 2022.
Mari Wilson with her parents 1982. (Daily Mail)
Mari Wilson’s iconic Showpeople album cover 1983.
Mari Wilson demonstrates the peril of doing a calendar photo shoot with limited headroom for her famous beehive. By the legendary Adrian Boot. As mentioned in the show, Mari was wearing that June outfit during the recording of Showpeople. (It’s Crimplene.)
Mari Wilson’s dates supporting Level 42 in UK in November 2022.
Witness the quick change power of Mari during Baby It’s True. Thrill to this audience of Dutch New Romantics.
Mari on Dutch Top Pop show 1984.
Mari Wilson live performance of Cry Me A River on The Tube 1984 with her strings the Prawn Cocktails.
Mari with Matt Backer – The Eyes Have It.Maynard’s research, a selection of Mari Wilson press 1980s.
Official looking transcript of Maynard’s interview with Mari Wilson
Maynard: Valued listener, only three musical artists deserve their very own section in my extensive music collection. They are ABBA, Tom Jones and our guest today, Mari Wilson.
From an early beginning in the backyard bathtub in Neasden, to the bright lights of New York City and Crouch End, Mari has wowed the world with her albums such as Showpeople, The Rhythm Romance, Pop Deluxe and Emotional Glamour. And the singles: from the perfect 80s pop of Just What I Always Wanted, to the cinematically dangerous Would I Dance with a Stranger, to any of the belting heartfelt ballads on Pop Deluxe, Mari’s worked with Boy George, Mark Almond, Heaven 17, not to mention Harry, Barry, Larry, Gary, Cary and, of course, Jim.
Despite never realising her lifelong dream of owning a donkey by the seaside, Mari has succeeded in breathing life and laughter into her catchphrase: it's a glamourous song and it's glamorously sung.
My favourite UK Type 1 diabetic, please welcome Miss Beehive, The Neasden Queen of Soul, eat drink and be Mari! In fact, be Mari McMillan Ramsey Wilson! Hi Mari!
Mari: Hello there! That was quite something, wasn't it, that intro, that's very kind of you. You missed one album out there and that's Cover Stories. It was the one before Pop Deluxe. It's very sparse, just piano.
Maynard: And I saw you giving a lovely sparse performance of Female of the Species on YouTube at a show.
Mari: Oh my God, I think I’ve only sung that once, that song,
Maynard: What got me was it was in a lovely restaurant and people were eating. Mari is singing! Don't eat the soup while the woman's singing! Great version.
Mari: Well, thank you. That was years ago. My goodness. How long ago? That must have been 20 years ago, at least.
Maynard: Minimal arrangement. I quite liked it. In fact, we've got telegrams from people that want me to say hello to you. Some of your Australian fans want me to say hello and ask some questions. Are you up for it Mari?
Mari: Absolutely. Of course.
Maynard: First one comes from Dave Milton, who was the owner of the Blue Note Club in Derby.
Mari: [Laughs] That brings back some hilarious memories that does!
Maynard: He said that “Mari and her band were always the most professional and the easiest group to work with that I ever worked with while I owned the Blue Note.” There you go.
Mari: Well, that's nice to know. I don't think every club owner would say that mind you.
Maynard: Is that because sometimes there were 12 of you and you left mud marks in the dressing room and that sort of thing?
Mari: I'm pretty OCD. No, I always leave the dressing room probably tidier than when I get there. When I look back to those times, The Blue Note was fantastic. We had some fantastic gigs there. I think we played there a few times, actually. It was just very vibey and it was at the time when … I always find this quite hard to describe … but before you become whatever word you want to use “famous” or “successful” or “known”, you know, before you have that hit. It's the time sort of just before that that you never get back again. you know, I wasn’t as massive as somebody like Madonna, but still for a few years, I was having hit records and touring and recognised and all that kind of thing. But it's the bit before that, that is the nicest because you can feel something's happening, but it hasn't happened yet, but you feel like it's going to.
Maynard: There's that moment when you've still got your friends and the people you know coming along, and the new people are coming in, and it's blending like that. Is that kind of what you mean as well?
Mari: Yeah, it's the anticipation. It's a bit like when you are falling in love with someone, those first six months when you shag like rabbits. Oh, I don’t know if I can say that. Can I?
Maynard: Oh, we're going to get dirty here, don't you worry about that!
Mari: Oh good. It kind of feels like that. And then when you get the hit and everything, that is great, but there's something better for me about the “just before” - it's lovely.
Maynard: Well, we've got a quote here from you from March 5th, 1983, from the Record Mirror on the front cover: “Mari Wilson: I'd rather muck about than be sexy”. A completely out-of-context quote that they love putting on the front of these magazines.
There's another one from you I like: “The problem about being famous is what if I'm walking down the shops and I fall over and there's a hole in my tights”.
Mari: Did I say that? That's ridiculous!
Maynard: That's a legitimate issue. If there's a hole in your tights at any time and someone notices, it can be embarrassing.
Mari: Well, yeah, well but it's quite fashionable to have holes in your tights now. I think the worst thing would be if you didn't have any knickers on - that would be a bit worse, but I didn't think of that at the time
Maynard: That would get you in The Sun. You'd be in The Sun for sure.
Mari: Oh yeah, it would, yeah.
Maynard: There's Ryan Wallace, who worked for the BBC for a while, and when he heard you were from Neasden, he asks: is the best way to drive to Neasden via Shoot Up Hill Road? Does that mean anything to you?
Mari: Well, it depends where you're coming from, you'd have to go through Willesden. This is sending people to sleep isn't it?
Maynard: People are putting this into their GPS right now as we talk. Bob Downe, also known as Mark Trevorrow, who I believe has worked with you a few times in the UK. Remember him?
Mari: Bob Downe! Gosh, yes, I do!
Maynard: He just says “Huge hello” and he still thinks you are completely fabulous.
Mari: Oh, that's lovely. Oh gosh, isn't everyone being really nice, how lovely.
Maynard: Glenn Keenan, he was over at my place the other day. And there's a photo of you on the wall doing your makeup, 10 by 8, I really like that. Is that your bedroom?
Mari: Oh, that, yeah, it's a great photo that.
Maynard: [Glenn] said she confused the hipsters of the early 80s English music press. And I think you did. They didn't know quite what to make of you sometimes.
Mari: No, they didn't because it was just after punk had faded away. But the great thing about the 80s was everyone was very glamorous. Boy George, the Human League, the Eurythmics, you know, we all dressed up, but we dressed up in our own way. A lot of us didn't have stylists, it was our own taste. Most of my stuff came from charity shops.
Maynard: Every fashionable woman I know, wants to know: did you get your dresses made for you or did you mainly buy from vintage shops? There’s a great quote from you saying you love going out on tour because it gave you an excuse to buy new outfits.
Mari: Later on, I did have someone making me stuff, but it was, there's a place called Portobello Road in London and they've got loads of what we would now call vintage shops. They sold second hand stuff. And I used to go down there and get things. And also there was in Neasden, every so often there was the Neasden Sea Scouts jumble sale. Now why there were Sea Scouts in Neasden I've got no idea, we’re nowhere near the sea.
Maynard: Maybe it's a global warming thing. They were getting ready.
Mari: Maybe they were ahead of their time, ‘cause I'm talking like 1980. The women who used to run the jumble sales would phone me and say, just letting you know, there's a jumble sale coming up and there's a few lurex dresses. Should we put them aside? So they did. I used to get my earrings there. You can't find stuff like that now. And I've still got some of it. The first dress I wore on TV cost 20 pence from the Neasden Sea Scout jumble sale. It was a blue lurex number. I think they didn't know what to make of me because I wasn't really like anyone else. And that's the point, isn't it, in my opinion, for a musician or a pop star not to be like anyone else.
Maynard: I managed to get a copy of the Melody Maker with you on the front cover with a little bird. You've had enough of this guy who’s interviewing you and you say, “Look, I'm not actually Depeche Mode” you say during the interview, because it's obvious that you're not, and he's interviewing you like you are, or you should be.
Mari: Were they trying to be a bit political, were they?
Maynard: The whole thing started out, because it was his birthday and he had to interview you for lunch. And that's what he started about. Typical English journalist starts writing about something that has nothing to do with anything that is part of the story. He goes on about, you know, you don't write your own songs. Are you a singer? And you went “I'm an entertainer”. And it's when you said you were an entertainer, it was like, you were like throwing gasoline on the fire and then you eventually said, “Look I'm not Depeche Mode.”
Mari: They could be, and they still can be, quite nasty. And like, what are you getting out of it? Maybe it's just envy because they're not doing much themselves. I don't really know. And also, it's much harder to write nice things about someone than it is to write nasty things. It's quite easy to write nasty things. You can find all these wonderful adjectives and be clever with your words. But to be nice about someone takes a bit more effort, I think. Dusty Springfield never wrote one song.
Maynard: You got the cover. There's a double page interview. And this guy, ugh.
Mari: That's a very valid point Maynard. The fact that, yeah, I'm on the cover, I've got a double page spread, so wait a minute, who's the fool here?
Maynard: February 26th, 83. Look, you're in there with Laurie Anderson, Thin Lizzy, Madness, Eurhythmics, Depeche Mode and you on the front cover. So there!
Mari: Exactly.
Maynard: By the way, listener, Mari Wilson. She's not Depeche Mode. In case anyone's tuning in for Depeche Mode, you'll be sadly disappointed. One last greeting: Kim Sand writes “Did you stop doing your beehive hairdo because you were getting migraines from the 150 hair pins you had to put in all the time?”
Mari: You sometimes get headaches, actually. When it started, I just used to do it myself and it wasn't that big. And then I got my hairdresser Susie, and I said, oh, we, we need a bigger one. So she did quite a big one. And then I met Peter Cannon who I'm still very, very close to.
Maynard: And he's the one who did the M class hairdo, which you later evolved into I believe?
Mari: Yeah. He's amazing at hairdos. That's his forte. He's brilliant at that. He’d say “oh, should we make it a bit bigger? Oh, what should we put in the back? Let's put this in the back” and all that. It was so exhausting; I would have to go to … I've got a fantastic photograph someone took of me asleep in bed in a hotel, with my head hanging off the side of the bed, because I couldn't put my head on a pillow because it would squash my beehive. It was usually because I would have an interview or something first thing in the morning, so I thought, oh, I don't want to have my hair done again, oh, I'm not going to take it down, I'll leave it. And it looks like the Elephant Man, it's quite hilarious actually, this photograph.
Maynard: I enjoy watching your videos because you did hide little things in the back of your beehive, there’d be a Christmas decoration or a photo or a coloured ribbon. People should have hired it for advertising space.
Mari: Yeah, they should have!
Maynard: Your Name Here!
Mari: I just wanted to move on. Everyone has their first look, don't they, look at Phil Oakey from the Human League with his lopsided bob and things like that. So I did have loads of other hairdos, but I don't have it now or anything because when you do that kind of 1950s and 60s, which I still love, and I still have a nod to it in the way I dress. I mean I'm 67 now, so if I was to have a beehive now, when I was young, it was kind of cute and ironic, because I had a nice plump face and everything, but now you no longer look cute, you just look older. And when you're 67, you don't want to look even older.
Maynard: You've still got the great fashion sense in The Eyes Have It with Matt Backer that's up on YouTube. You’ve got a great selection of outfits.
Mari: I still do it with my clothes, and I still sort shish my hair up a bit, but nothing like then. I still love it.
Maynard: Have you got kids or a teenage daughter that at one stage said, “oh Mum, your antics are a bit embarrassing for me”?
Mari: I have a 25-year-old daughter.
Maynard: Well, I hope she stops saying that then.
Mari: Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes I'll say, “Do you want to come to the gig?” And she'll say, “Oh, well, I suppose you're just going to be doing Cry Me a River … no, not really”. And I thought “Thanks a lot!” But she will. In fact, I'm singing tomorrow night at my friend's 60th birthday. There's loads of us singing tomorrow. So she's coming with me tomorrow night, but probably because she wants to see everybody else. [Laughs]
Maynard: Mari Wilson, another thing I have to ask you. Watching your many live performances over the decades on YouTube that I've seen, to my ear you seem impervious to a bad PA or fold back. I've heard no bum notes or out of tune stuff going on at all. Have you always got a good PA or you've got a good ear for getting the right note under difficult circumstances? Singing in the sun in the middle of Holland, working a difficult gig with a bad PA, you’re on the note every time.
Mari: The 80s was good training, really, because the sound was always terrible, because there were 12 of us, it wasn't like a duo or even just a 4-piece band. There was 12 of us. That's a lot of people making a lot of noise and the first line up, they weren't the most amazing musicians. And I don't mean that in a horrible way. We were just all young and hadn't had the experience and a lot of them ended up not being musicians. It wasn't like it was their dream to be a musician. I think it was just their dream to do something that was good fun. And it was, so there was that side of it. And we just didn't have the technology. Then you'd play places and they had old PAs and you couldn't hear yourself because the band was too loud. And maybe that was the training, where I learned to tune into my own head. And I learned how to pitch despite all that. And maybe that's paid off.
Maynard: You've also got a talent, not many people would know that hadn't seen you live at the time: you're also an amazing quick-change artist. In Baby it’s True on more than one live performance, within 50 seconds, you leave the stage change your outfit and come back on within 50 seconds, or around about 48 bars, I've actually counted it. How'd you do that? What's the secret, Mari, come on! A lot of women can change quickly in the back in the back of a cab, but that's quick.
Mari: Well, the most important thing is you've got to have something you can step into. You can't have something going over your head, that's not going to work, especially with a beehive. So you're going to have a dress with a zip down the back, step into it, zip it up and get back on.
Maynard: Did you have any help or was this all a one woman show?
Mari: Peter, my hairdresser. He was always there in the wings, waiting. I remember once I went on stage, because Baby it's True was my intro, and still is when I do it with my huge Wilsations Band now. It's still the first song. It's still the song I open with. And it starts with that baseline, you know, that bass riff. And Hank had done his spiel, the bass riff was going on and then “Here's Mari!” and I walked on, and my beehive got caught in the lighting rig and I couldn't. So, of course he said, “Here's Mari!” I don’t know how many times. I'm kind of going “Help me! Somebody help me!” Eventually I did get help, because they were thinking, well, where is she? Cause I wasn't backstage, but I wasn't on stage. So there are many stories like that.
Maynard: Did the beehive cause issues in photo shoots? Because for your calendar, your 1983 calendar, it looks like they didn't budget for enough headroom for the beehive and you in the same shot.
Mari: Yes. That's why I'm either seated or bending down looking very awkward. It was a photographer called Adrian Boot, who's a remarkable photographer, tiny little guy. We did it at his studio in the grounds of his house, I believe, but he couldn't get me all in the shot. Isn't that ridiculous? He couldn't get all of me in the shot. And why didn't he just do the head and shoulders then, but it was all about the outfits you see, because we were copying Julie London's Calendar Girl album.
Maynard: And as I've mentioned many times, Mari Wilson's calendar from Showpeople can be reused this very year. All the dates match up again.
Mari: Oh wow. Yes, I saw that you'd said that somewhere. Isn't that amazing?
Maynard: I went to the trouble of making an A3 version of the Mari Wilson calendar for this year.
Mari: Have you? Oh, you're amazing!
Maynard: It’s hilarious as an A3.
Mari: Very funny. It was a laugh doing it, you know, and, and I tend to use them on certain months.
Maynard: Oh, August you're in Spain with a “Manuel” kind of person. In July you're in a beach chair, you've got a guy in some Speedos and some budgie smugglers leaning over you.
Mari: I’ll have to have a study of that.
Maynard: Look, have you got to keep many of these outfits, or have you just had to rationalise at some point in your life?
Mari: I gave a lot of my dresses to Children in Need about 25 years ago, which is a charity here. I remember signing the inside of the dresses and stuff like that. So I don't know who has them. I have some, I sold some because I did a Crowdfunder for one of my albums.
Maynard: Was that the Dolled Up project?
Mari: No, Dolled Up was financed by Bill Kenwright, the theatre entrepreneur, who I know. He just came to a gig one night and I was doing my new songs and he said, “Oh, they're great”. And I said “Well, I'm trying to make an album at the moment”. He said, “Who are you signed to?” And I said, “Well, nobody, I've just got my own label”. And he said, “Well, I'll pay for it”. I thought, oh, okay, you've got millions, that's fine. So he did.
It was Emotional Glamour I think. I gave away the very first dress I had, you know, I auctioned it off to raise money to make the album. And it was for someone in Australia, funnily enough.
Maynard: Did you get many Australian fans? Because, looking at your chart history, Just What I Always Wanted was released as a single here, but from what I can see, the album never was.
Mari: Well, that's interesting, isn't it? Because I've never been to Australia.
Maynard: You were very influential on a group I was in called The Castanet Club in 1982. One or two people had the album on import, which cost a lot of money in those days. And we'd play it. And the image of the calendar and the glamour, and we even tried I think to do one or two covers off the album - failed miserably. But still, it was a big influence on the look and the way we were. And I wanted to thank you for that, for that alone.
Mari: Well, thank you Maynard, goodness me!
Maynard: I’m just going across the room now, because one of the albums that I really thought was great was The Rhythm Romance album of yours. It's a great jazz crossover album. Yeah Yeah is great. And your version of My Funny Valentine that was on there.
Mari: I'm very proud of that version. People really liked it, because the thing is what happened in my pop thing, it got to about 1984, something like that. And I felt like we were just doing the same thing and it was time for changes really. Everybody wanted me to do different things. My manager wanted me to do one thing and Tot Taylor wanted me to do high energy stuff, a bit like Hazell Dean. I know Hazell. She's lovely.
Maynard: You could have done a Hazell Dean!
Mari: I didn’t want to do high energy stuff, it wasn't my taste. I recorded a song called Let's Make it Last and instead it became Let's Make it the Last, because it was the last one I recorded. And I hated it.
Maynard: It was a very full on shock for someone who was used to your other material.
Mari: Yeah, it was all Fairlights, which was a keyboard everyone used back then that did all kinds of special tricks. A bit like Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Relax, they have a lot of that on their records. It just wasn't me. And it was weird because the day I did the vocal was the day my Dad died suddenly. It was almost like everything was pointing to me saying, ah, this is it, I don't want to do this anymore. This isn't who I wanted to be. I wanted to be Judy Garland and Dusty Springfield and Bonnie Raitt, if you mixed up a hybrid of those three, if you like, and I just wasn't going there at all. And I just thought it's time to go. So I told the record company I didn't want to be with them anymore, I told my manager “I don't want to be with you anymore”. I just cut ties with everybody. And of course, most people are dropped by the record company, not the other way around.
Maynard: I've heard you say this, you had a manager who believed in you. Now, most people in show businesses are going Really? What? Who is this manager that believed in their artist? Where is this person? And the fact that the manager believed in you and got you the support for Stan Getz at The Albert Hall. That's amazing.
Mari: Yes. That was a different guy, because what happened as a result of me cutting ties, I was in litigation with the record company for 18 months. So I couldn't sign with another record label, and my sax player said, “Well, you’re a great jazz singer. Why don't we put a jazz quartet together and do jazz?” So I did a few gigs. And then Brian Theobald, who was at Ronnie Scott’s - Ronnie Scott’s is a very famous club in London for people that don't know, it's been there since the 50s. And everyone's played there: Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, everybody. It’s still going. Ronnie's agent was a guy called Brian Theobald. He became my agent as a jazz singer, and he put me on at Ronnie's, he put me on with Stan Getz, I mean, it was hilarious when he put me on with Stan Getz at the Royal Festival Hall a lot of people had said to him, well, you’re putting a pop singer on with Stan Getz, that's outrageous! And I remember when I walked on stage, I walked on and I went, “Right, my agent’s told me to drop the cartwheels from the act this evening”. And there wasn't one titter in the audience at all, because they were very much jazz buffs, you know? So they didn't have a sense of humour.
Maynard: They can be very snooty, jazz buffs.
Mari: Oh so snooty! Sitting there with their arms folded, what can you do? But I did kind of prove myself in the end and I worked with some fantastic musicians, still do. That's how I ended up getting into jazz. That's why The Rhythm Romance happened because I was approached by that record company saying, do you want to do an album?
Maynard: And that was in 1990. I bought this CD album. It's still got the price on it in Australian dollars. It was 47 Australian dollars in 1990, because it was an import. And I paid exactly the same for Marigold and the Cry Me a River compilation.
Mari: That's crazy, isn't it? Gosh!
Maynard: And played them to death on triple J, my radio station I was working on at the time, nationally. In 86 there was some of your stuff in the triple J library and I was doing Midnight to Dawn, and you could play any music you liked, it was that kind of radio station. But you’re working on something at the moment, aren't you Mari?
Mari: Yes. I mean, I'm very proud of Pop Deluxe. I think we did a really good job on all those songs that are, you know, quite well-known songs, but I think I've put my own take on them. And I thought, well, it's time for a change and I don't want to do any more covers. I don't mean at all ever, but I don't want to make another album of covers. So it was time to get down and start writing again. We've written and recorded about 6 tracks now. Maybe towards the end of the year I'll decide what we're going to do with it.
Maynard: You have your support with Level 42 across the UK there.
Mari: Yes. I'm going on tour with them in November. That'll be really good fun I think. It'll be a different audience as well for me.
Maynard: I wouldn't have automatically thought of you with Level 42.
Mari: There may not be a gay man in sight, Maynard, in that audience. I don't know, different demographic to me, but that's a good thing, I think.
Maynard:. Mari Wilson's Christmas Pageant with The New Wilsonisations, you're having a Christmas pageant on December 8th in Islington in London. I thought you should be getting Boy George, maybe Dee Snider would like to come along again, renew your friendship. And let's face it, what could Simon Le Bon possibly be doing on December 8th? He must have that night free. So invite him along as well.
Mari: Okay, I will, yeah. Well, I did appear with Soft Cell a couple of years ago when they did their show at the O2.
Maynard: In fact, I think you should sing Tainted Love.
Mari: Yes, it's a good song.
Maynard: Both versions. Yeah, I think it should be a pageant, maybe a bit of panto. Have someone dressed up, have someone, “Where's Mari?” “Behind you!” Do that stuff. That's Christmas.
Mari: Well, let's see, I've got a few ideas for some guests at the moment. It'll be all over social media.
Maynard: People, have a look at Mari's Instagram because when the lockdown was on, you were wandering around the centre of London to some of your old haunts, like the Top Shop hairdresser. Nothing anywhere, nothing!
Mari: It was the weirdest, weirdest thing we just said, “Let's drive into town”, drove into town ... desert. Desert town. I've got photographs that I took of Regent Street, Oxford Street, nothing, no cars, no people. It was so eerie. But also quite beautiful in a way, because you could really look at the buildings and get a sense of what it is or what it was really, because it still hasn't really, really recovered. And the fact that Top Shop, that iconic, huge, on four floors, Top Shop, which is where I did initially get my beehive done back then. So sad. It did make me feel rather sad.
Maynard: I also felt that in some ways the Dutch really got the Mari Wilson experience there, because there's a couple of Dutch music press that I've actually been able to grab. It's great, looked on eBay and there was someone who'd clipped Mari Wilson bits out of the paper from 82 all the way through to 97 or something.
Mari: Wow! You've got more stuff than I have.
Maynard: I've taken a photo and put it up with the caption “I may have over researched this interview”.
Mari: [Laughs] I've written the sleeve notes for the box set.
Maynard: It’s Cherry Red. They make great box sets.
Mari: I mean, it's taken a long time because of the politics.
Maynard: With rights? It's all rights isn't it?
Mari: Oh, yes. The rights for this and … oh gosh! In the past they couldn't find the Showpeople orchestral version of Cry Me a River. Warner Brothers! Couldn't find it! You're a record company, what do you mean you can't find it?
Maynard: Where's the video of you singing that with the orchestra? I'd love to see that, there must be one.
Mari: No, there isn't.
Maynard: Because I've seen photos.
Mari: Yeah, there are photos. You see, I only ever made one video. Can you believe that?
Maynard: Beware Boyfriend.
Mari: This is the problem of having a 12-piece band because the budget, it wasn't there, although it was great fun, I wouldn't have changed anything. So we made this video for Boyfriend, and then when I recorded Cry Me a River with the orchestra at Air Studios, the iconic Air Studios in Oxford Street, which isn't there now, someone, I can't remember who, filmed a lot of that. And then they chopped it all together with different bits and made a video for Just What I Always Wanted, which was shown on MTV. There might be a weird grainy version on YouTube, I'm not sure, but it wasn't made for Just What I Always Wanted, someone just did it.
Maynard: In fact I was wondering as part of the box set, is it possible for a DVD of the clips to be on there or something like that?
Mari: I don't think they're doing a DVD.
Maynard: Any rarities? Because a lot of your B-sides and live stuff, and particularly The Young Person's Guide to Compact (the record label) had a couple of songs on that. One of them I think, recorded it at … did you play after Eraserhead, the movie? Did you come on after that and sing?
Mari: That was hilarious. My Mum crowned me.
Maynard: Oh, that's what that photo's from!
Mari: That was my Mum crowning me, yes. Hilarious. We put on Eraserhead and Mari Wilson together because you know, two interesting hairdos.
Maynard: All these intense art students going “This … this music's rather flippant”.
Mari: I remember we had the baskets you get in the supermarket. Even I did it, I think, walking around the audience, carrying these baskets that had Mari Wilson badges in them and little silly things, just handing them out to people. That's what I mean about … because that was just before it happened as well. It's those times that I really treasure, because once you've had some kind of success, you just don't get that feeling back, because you can't.
Maynard: Compact Records had that bit of a “we'll have a go and see what happens” attitude.
Mari: Oh, definitely. Yeah, I mean, Tot Taylor is a really clever guy
Maynard: The front cover of Just What I Always Wanted, where you're holding Tupperware and wandering around this fabulous thing that looks like a set, but I'm damn sure that's someone's lounge room.
Mari: It was someone's lounge. We did dress it up a bit, but it was someone's lounge. It was a journalist, actually, it was his flat and I had, and still have, quite a collection of Tupperware because I had many Tupperware parties a long time ago. I've got a thing about Tupperware.
Maynard: They’ve got the vacuum seal. If you've got some mince, you pop it in there, stick in the freezer.
Mari: Absolutely! And my cat, she only has half a pouch in the morning and half a pouch at night. So once you've opened it, it has to be kept somewhere. And it's kept in a nice yellow square Tupperware container until teatime when she has the other half.
Maynard: And the cats have a hard time, they can't burp it, they can't get it out.
Mari: No. And you've got to know how to let the air out with Tupperware. I'm very knowledgeable about Tupperware.
Maynard: With Just What I Always Wanted on BBC Top of the Pops, there's three or four different clips of you on that. So where were they with Wonderful? Or the other ones off the album?
Mari: Well, Wonderful probably didn't get high enough in the charts for me to appear, I'm thinking. Gosh! Isn't it awful how you can't remember, but it was a long time ago, Maynard.
Maynard: Cry Me a River, the one where the people are dancing and there's all these little beehives on a stick, I don’t know if that's a Top of the Pops one.
Mari: I did do Top of the Pops Cry Me a River and I sang live.
Maynard: You sang it live, and you can see all the smarty bums around there: “We don't see this very often”.
Mari: Because I just thought, I can't mime, that would be a very hard song to mine. You have to sing it. You have to be honest and show some kind of emotion with it. It was me that insisted on it, I said, “I want to sing it live”.
Maynard: On The Tube as well, you had The Prawns, the violinists with you?
Mari: Oh yes, The Prawn Cocktails. Yeah, they were great.
Maynard: That was just a great performance live as well. And that gave everybody a big glass of shut up juice as well when you did that. And it's a great signature song for you.
Mari: I have to do Cry Me a River and I have to do Just What I Always Wanted, even if I'm doing it with a small line-up.
Maynard: That album has a great Burt Bacharach cover.
Mari: Oh yes, I still do that. It's a lovely song. Not easy to sing, actually, either, that's typical Burt Bacharach because he plays the weirdest chords and his songs go in the strangest directions. Clever.
Maynard: Just want to mention Just What I Always Wanted, listening to it with headphones on, there's so much of the time in it, that sounds like there's a DX7 sample of a toy piano in it. There's early vocoder being used in the backing vocals. It makes an interesting 12 inch as well.
Mari: It's a fantastic record. It still stands up. It still gets played on the radio quite a lot. It's a great song, but it's a fantastic record. Tony Mansfield, who produced it, did a really great job on it. And there are lots of little things going on in there. Toy piano, Tot always loved things like that. And we always on a lot of our records, we'd want a bit of a French horn. I remember recording it. Certain recording sessions are just such good fun, and you remember everything that happened. I remember I was making tuna fish sandwiches. I remember all of that. I remember what I was wearing. I was wearing a crimplene pink dress with matching jacket that came from a charity shop with white stilettos. I remember all of that.
Maynard: That's almost what you've got in the June calendar shot
Mari: Yes, it may have been, you know what, it might have been that outfit.
Maynard: Could be crimplene.
Mari: Yeah, crimplene, what a horrible material that was.
Maynard: it didn't breathe, did it?
Mari: Oh God, no, it didn't crease because you could have gone out to sea in it, and you would've been fine.
Maynard: I always like to end with a song that the guest picks and it can be anything you've done ever. What would you like me to finish on? And maybe we could talk about that for a sec before we play it?
Mari: Oh gosh! Oh my word.
Maynard: While Mari's thinking here's Mari's profile from June 5th, 1982. Musical influences: Stevie Wonder The Beatles; Hero: Your Dad; Books: George Orwell, Grimms’ Fairy Tales and The UFO Phenomenon. I looked that up, that was a 1980 release about the history of UFOlogy and the fact that they may come from somewhere else. So you were getting into The Other back then, Mari!
Mari: Yeah, I can't believe I said that though. Honestly, it's hilarious. I mean, I'm a bit of a comedian as well as being a singer. [Laughs]
Maynard: Your fantasy was to date Oliver Reed, but the Oliver Reed from 10 years ago.
Mari: Oh yeah, Oliver Reed, when he was about 22, oh my God, he was absolutely gorgeous! Black hair, blue eyes, tall. Oh, gorgeous! And then he just lost his way somewhat.
Maynard: Speaking of lost your way, what happened to the Austin 1300 Estate with the sunroof, the 1971 car there? How did it meet its end?
Mari: I think it just conked out after a while and I got myself a Mini.
Maynard: That seems very you.
Mari: Yes, it was blue. Metallic blue Mini Clubman, it was. It was very nice, but that Austin 1300 ... I think what happened was I went to see some friends of mine in South Kensington, and on the way home all the electrics went, and I had to drive home with no lights or anything. And I thought I'll either get arrested or I'll have a terrible accident, but I did make it home. So that was a sign that it was dying.
Maynard: What was it like when you heard yourself on the radio, your song for the first time? How'd that happen for you?
Mari: I was at home with my Mum and Dad, and we knew that Annie Nightingale going to play it. It was a Friday night. Annie Nightingale’s like an iconic DJ here.
Maynard: So is this Radio 1?
Mari: Yeah, Radio 1. She played Dance Card, which is crazy record. And she played it. And I remember we turned it up on the radiogram, in the front room. It was thrilling. It was absolutely thrilling.
Maynard: I think you knew something in the early 80s, because you were doing songs like Rave and Ecstasy, which was about six years ahead of what was going on in the culture.
Mari: You know, no one's ever mentioned that, but that's very true.
Maynard: Why do you think I was playing it in 1990?
Mari: [Laughs] One of the fastest records ever made. I think Ecstasy.
Maynard: I do like the slow version, but the fast version's my favourite.
Mari: It's ridiculous, it's so fast, it's mad.
Maynard: So from your discography, which one would you like to choose?
Mari: I think White Horses.
Maynard: Tell us more about that one
Mari: White Horses was a TV show here in the 60s. And it was actually, I think it was Belgian originally, and it was about this little girl. So when I was a kid, when I got home from school, my Dad would be at home because he was a shift worker. And so, he'd be at home, and I'd sit on his lap and we would do the crossword in the Evening News and then we'd watch kids’ TV and there were loads of things, you know, Blue Peter, Magpie, all these different shows. But this one, White Horses, I can't even remember what happened in it. I know there was a white horse and a girl of about 12.
The theme tune, sung by a girl called Jackie, was called White Horses. And I'd always wanted to sing it because the melody and the lyric are just gorgeous. I mentioned it to my guitarist, in fact, I emailed him, and I sent him a YouTube link and I said, can you have a look at this because I need you to learn this song because I'm going to record it and I want to play it live and blah, blah, blah. And he wrote back, and he said, “Well, I don't need to because my Dad wrote it”. I didn't even know!
When I do it live, I don't even say what it is. I start singing it and everyone goes, “Oh!”, because they remember the TV show and it gives you that lovely, secure, warm feeling, you know, when you got home from school.
Maynard: It would take you straight back to sitting on the couch with your Dad doing the crossword, in a really wonderful place.
Mari: Yes, it's such a lovely, lovely song. I'm probably asking you to play something that maybe a lot of people in Australia won't know.
Maynard: Maybe we'll have a chat when the box set comes out, because I'm sure there'd be a lot of people who are going to be interested in that. That might be an import one here. I remember my Kevin Rowland album, have you heard him doing The Greatest Love of All? Have you heard Kevin's version of that, Mari?
Mari: Yes, I have.
Maynard: It's unique, isn't it?
Mari: Well, he's unique. He's unique. I went out with him for 5 minutes.
Maynard: Hang on a minute! Stop the … Kevin and Mari!
Mari: Yes! Back in the day. It was very brief. I'm not even referring into anything in particular when I say it was very brief. [Laughs]
Maynard: Raunchy Mari! Does he choose his own key and the band choose theirs, and they meet halfway in between?
Mari: I think it's that. I'm glad we’ve got people like him to mix it up a bit, because sometimes I put the radio on, or I'll hear something and I think what is this? This is absolute tripe. There's a lot of tripe out there. And there's a lot of songs that were written by 14 people. And it's not even a song, it's a chant. It's one line that they sing over and over and over again. God, but there is also some fantastic stuff out there, but as far as pure pop music has gone a little bit down the drain, I think, although I do like Harry Styles, I must say.
Maynard: Like you said, whether they're writing by committee, whether it's people that are inexperienced that are doing it, but at no other time in history has there been a chance to find your own music. No matter what you're into, you can find it somewhere.
Mari: Absolutely yeah. But it's just that the pop side of things is, I think, not so good. And I think a lot of it is because there's not much humour going on. There was a lot of humour going on in pop music and it's all terribly serious. Can we not have a bit of romance please?
Maynard: It's not written in a clever way.
Mari: I think that's what I'm trying to say. It's not exactly literature, is it? They all sing like Hylda Baker. She was an actress about 50 years ago, and she used to say, “Who are you standing there?” and I just think, oh my God, they're all singing like Hylda Baker. You know, one note will do thanks. We don't need 25 notes where one will do. Thank you.
Maynard: I blame the talent shows for that, The Voice, because everyone goes “Aaah”, they've got to warble up and warble down. They don't just hit the note. They give you a choice of three or four.
Mari: There's two things. There's the pyrotechnics, which is totally unnecessary and meaningless, and the other one is: how high can you hit that note? That's not singing. Singing is about creating a mood and making someone feel something. I mean, even Whitney Houston would hit a note and hold it, but that was a completely different thing, it was in context.
Maynard: Kevin’s version of The Greatest Love of All, he makes it his own, and when he goes for the key change, he just blows through that key change like he’ll get to that key change when he feels like it. Don't you give me your key change! It's fantastic. I love it. He doubles down. I've never heard a vocalist do that to that extent before. He said he's bringing his soul to it. And if that's what he's bringing soul to, I'm down with it.
Mari: I think we need people like that. Like we need Mark Almond. Mark is so dramatic. He gives like 250% with everything. It's great.
Maynard: Is he actually as sexy in person as he seems? It was Slice Radio from Orange, who are in the middle of New South Wales - they asked me to ask you that question. Why, I don't know, probably a huge Mark Almond enclave going on in the middle of New South Wales I suspect.
Mari: Well, I've never thought of Mark as sexy because we're probably not attracted to each other in that way.
Maynard: Yes, it's a certain thing, that chemistry, yeah.
Mari: Yeah. You know, but he's lovely. He's a lovely, lovely man. And I love him. I think he's a great guy. He's sexy to other people. Let's put it that way.
Maynard: There's your answer Slice Radio from Orange in New South Wales. Put that in your pipe and smoke it or light it or vape it, whatever you want to do.
Mari Wilson, thank you. Let's have a listen to White Horses. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the great pageant on the 8th of December there in Islington in London, and I'm really looking forward to the box set that's coming out.
Mari: Thank you. Thank you so much, Maynard, it's been lovely.
Maynard: Well, I would do the old cliche thing of “this interview is just what I always wanted”, but everyone always says that don't they?
Mari: Rather! [Laughs]
Maynard: Thank you for your time, Mari Wilson.
Mari: My pleasure.
Maynard: I've just been spending the day immersed in my Mari Wilson collection here.
Mari: Oh I do apologise!
Bunga Bunga 71 reaches across the aisle to goose your jaded pooka.
Tim Ferguson calls the upcoming Federal election. It was when Labor was ahead by 10 points. But he’s probably right, yet again. Maynard risks COVID by going out and working Electric Dreams on the 30th.
In a show described by media pundits as “you get what you get and you don’t get upset” Tim and Maynard talk a big game and leave you with a free kick that you never knew you needed.
As discussed in Crankmail, Australian Jesus helps Noah with his Ark by Reg Mombassa
Your Crankmail asks about Telly Savalas, Ricardo Montalban, and just what was that nice lady on Romper Room doing with that mirror? Do you really think Bunga Bunga 71 has the answers…
“Time for big ideas Australia. Let’s build a Sydney Harbour Bridge to Adelaide. Sure, we’ll regret it later, but now is the time!”
Tim Ferguson – Uncivil Engineer
Tim’s new modern not-at-all-like-Davros electric wheelchair gets a test drive while we visit 1994 and ruin another Historical Hypothetical with the help of the Premier of NSW.
“Buckle in for a policy free, vision absent six weeks election campaign where occasionally The Greens will stand up and say ‘Clive Palmer shouted at us’.”
Tim Ferguson – psephologist
Elvis The Safety Owl welcomes you aboard his school bus.
This time on the enlightening falsehood that is Bunga Bunga 70, Tim Ferguson and Maynard lead you on a wild goose chase down the rabbit hole of froth and bubble.
You’ll encounter manic expansionism, lack of credibility, confused animals, three word headlines and The Brothers Gibb.
Tim insults the young, Paul Livingstone decries Tim’s art, then they announce an art exhibition in June together.
Bernard King’s Winter Cookbook cover
“If you are sporting a mullet today, don’t tell me you can’t dress like Boy George tomorrow.”
Tim Ferguson – fashion plate
The Face with Haircut 100, June 1982.
We hear you peeing, ask which side Tim’s cat is on, bemoan the lack of banana diplomatic representation, find a new job for the Prime Minister, ask who is your favourite Bernard and pose the perennial question “when does ugh boot season officially start?’.
In time travel news: 1982 is back, so learn how to talk all art school. Might come in handy next time you enter the Archibald prize.
Should the next Doctor Who be a cat? Should it have a limp? Are baked desserts part of the ABC News charter?
Bunga Bunga 70 is beguiling yet ribald as Maynard appreciates the subtle use of a Greek fisherman’s cap while Tim still wants to know why you are so ignorant. Don’t even get him started on kale…
“Most young people couldn’t even decide what colour helmet to wear if they went into space.”
Tim Ferguson – magnanimous
Tim’s cat Kitler looking miffed. Possibly thinking of the Donbas region.
Get to Bungary as Bunga Bunga 69 welcomes 2022 with a wink, a smile and its pants down.
Tim Ferguson & Maynard journey across the world and their lounge-room to bring you the truth of a 2022 that Tim feels will be better and Maynard that knows it will be worse, a lot worse.
Read our Crankmail, solve history’s problems and yours as well.
Australia’s Coldest 100 returns this Saturday with world class musical shonk that only Australia can produce.
Just look at this list of artists that you’ll never see on the same list or even in the same sentence.
Don Lane, Kyle Sandilands, Liza Minnelli, Ben Fordham, James Reyne, Samuel L Jackson, Barry Crocker, The Muzak Corporation, Wickety Wak, Lorrae Desmond, Frankie J Holden, Wilbur Wilde, Barry Crocker, Dean Martin, Victorian Police Cadets Skipping Team and the Big Brother cast of 2001 for just a start.
As well as wonderful regional jingles that remind you that major hubs of industry such as Toowoomba and Tasmania are still there.
The Coldest 100 knows the intersection of corporate thinking and opportunistic musicians…
After all, any dingbat can put together a list of good songs. It take a certain kind of goose like Andrew Sholl to put together 100 songs of Australian musical flotsam for 7 years in a row now.
The Coldest 100 is songs about Australia, sometimes they just don’t work out that well…
Andrew Sholl
It will all be going down from 9am Saturday 22nd January on Twitter @Ozkitsch Andrew Sholl shows no sign of modifying his musical taste.
If this music irks you, you’re probably on the wrong website. But if you have that clip of Don Lane singing the theme from Hawaii 5-0, let us know so Andrew can put it in next year.
Nastassja Bassi (Jacqueline Amidy) who I haven’t seen for more than 30 years drops into Maynard International Studios to deconstruct and celebrate her time with the Castanet Club 1985 -1990.
Jacqueline Amidy in NY 2004
The Castanet Club was more than theatrical, it was cinematic.
Natassja Bassi (Jacqueline Amidy)
For those fancy pants people who like to read, here is a heavily edited transcript of our conversation.
Maynard: One day you’re in your lounge room and you turn around and there’s someone you haven’t seen for 34 years standing at the door. Jacquie. Good to see you.
Jacqueline: How long has it been?
Maynard: 36 years ago. Since I’ve seen you.
Jacqueline: I was born about then. So I don’t know how that works.
Maynard: You are in Maynard International Studios. I’ve the same nervousness with you that I had with when Warren Coleman came over to the studios as well.
Jacqueline: Well, I’m real.
Maynard: Is there something you could point out to people?
Jacqueline: The hell? I’m not sure what to make of this I’m looking at, is that a signed Kylie single? There’s a photo of you and Kylie underneath at the Double Bay hotel. Is that the one that Michael died at? I blame you.
Jacqueline: I like your speakers. Very seventies speakers. So I’m sitting on the seventies lounge. I actually think I’ve sat on this lounge somewhere else. In my past. I’m really loving it. I’m going to use the word juxtaposition of seventies, sixties and fifties.
Maynard: Cross-generational carpets here as well. I’ve only, just recently got the CDs into order. They’re all actually in decades etc.
Jacqueline: I don’t think I have seen CDs for a long time.
Maynard: When I say CDs, people say, what?
Jacqueline: I’ve got a CD player in my 2004 Mercedes Compressor, black, black interior, two door, sexy. I do like cars in the last year I’ve had five cars.
Maynard: You strike me as being a station wagon woman.
Jacqueline: I love a station wagon. That’s what upsets me so much about the coupe. I can’t drive along and pick things up from the side of the road. I like freebies.
Maynard: I’ve got you here because we’ve have the Castanet Club exhibition come up. We’re talking about the Castanet Club time. I was just doing crazy dancing up the back.
Jacqueline: Everybody in the Castanet Club was extremely complex.
Maynard: Is there a great stage memory? Of course, Wuthering Heights was almost a signature piece for you.
Jacqueline: Thinking about it, my role was show stopper. I did all the show-stopping songs, Devil Gate Drive etc. I was in the second coming of the Castanet Club. We really put it together as a theatre show. We got a real director.
Maynard: That’d be Neil Armfield.
Jacqueline: We were in a theatre and a very cool theatre. Belvoir Street was at that stage, I think THE theatre.
Maynard: Yeah.
Jacqueline: An RSL club band in a theatre.
Maynard: That was one of the great things about the Castanet Club. We could do shows at an RSL, and we could go and do a theatre season at the Playhouse or at Belvoir Street and we could make it work.
Jacqueline: Do you remember when we did the tour of the Western suburbs RSL clubs?
Maynard: We did three or four. Way out west? We were driving for two hours.
Jacqueline: I do remember going to Rooty Hill RSL because I did work out that way. I drove past it daily, and every day, every day I had the same memory. Everybody going, who the hell is this band? I remember walking in and they just looked at us like who, the frick are these people?
Maynard: You aren’t thinking about Tweed Heads RSL?
Jacqueline: I think we were very successful there. That was very different. But we did have the people from the old people’s home, who spent the whole time with their fingers in their ears, looking very pained, especially when I sang Wuthering Heights. I do remember that that was a very strange season.
Maynard: We did win over a lot of fans there.
Jacqueline: It’s was kind of coals to Newcastle. Sorry to use that word.
Maynard: What was your favourite gig? Did you have one? Was it at one of the festivals?
Jacqueline: That would’ve been Perth. That festival was my favourite because it was the first time I drank alcohol. That was the outside one? We were playing at the University.
Maynard: A big deal was made of the fact that you were having a drink for the first time.
Jacqueline: I was on the piss mate. I was only on the piss because we were playing in a quadrangle and they kept telling us that it was a Shakespearian theatre, but in fact it was just a quadrangle of the University. Well, it was so packed. It was so packed. They were hanging off the rafters. Backstage wasn’t really a green room, it had nothing.
They only had beer and champagne and no water and nothing else that I could drink. I’m the singer in the band and I’m just going, “can we just get like a mineral water or something?” They couldn’t can’t get from the stage to the bar. There were so many people at that gig. There’s pink champagne though.
Maynard: So you thought pink champagne, what harm can that do?
Jacqueline: I started drinking it, and instantly I fell in love with it, and I got drunk. Then we were going to a party which was the Festival party. I think Glen was driving. We got to the party.The funniest thing of the party was, at that time, Kate Ceberano and I, people always got us mixed up.
People would think when we went out in those festivals, people would always think I was Kate Ceberano. I don’t know why, cause I don’t have tits and I’m all skinny. She had huge tits, huge everything. I wasn’t huge at all, but we were both kind of dark and swarthy I suppose. People thought she was me.
I do remember meeting her because she was a good Christian woman.
Maynard: Scientologist.
Jacqueline: Same thing.
Maynard: Don’t say that to a Catholic, that’ll start a fight.
Jacqueline: I am a Catholic. Anyway, I remember meeting her and we were kind of, “it’s you”, we started a conversation now I was trashed and this was my first time I had alcohol. I told Kate “I’m going to the toilet, stay here”. Well, I went to the toilet. I realised that when you get drunk things shift, so I’m sitting on the toilet and it was all swirling around my head.
Then I came back and she’d gone. I’m thinking what happened? That was my first experience with alcohol.
Maynard:I’m sure Kate Ceberano remembers that night.
Jacqueline: I’m sure she does. There were some incredible times. There were many, like when we’re at Belvoir Street, one of the first shows I ever played. They started the show without me. I’m out talking to somebody and they start Devil Gate Drive and I’m still at the bar.
I got to the stage, I ran to the front of the stage. Onto my knees and slid to the front of the stage and grabbed the microphone.
Who would start the show without the singer? That was great, but the most incredible time I ever had oh, which was at Balmain RSL Club.
Maynard: A great venue, a big cavernous venue with a huge stage, plenty of room for all the Castanets.
Jacqueline:It was around the corner from the Bijou . Where Betty Blockbuster had been. That’s where Reg Livermore did that big show.
That theatre was one of the first theatres closed down because of the people who’d moved when it was gentrified. They moved in and they made them close the theatre down.
And it was just around the corner from the RSL, which was a fabulous venue. I loved playing Balmain, but I remember one night and nobody will remember this, but I had a transcendental experience on stage, truly.
Maynard: You always were quite spiritual about your singing in the first place. So it doesn’t surprise me that you had this transcendental experience. What song were you singing and was it a particular part of the song? What happened?
Jacqueline: (long pause and intake of breath…) I’m a very serious singer. I take what I do very seriously. When I sing, I always put everything into a song. That was a beautiful thing about the Castanet Club, though there was this crazy shit happening. I mean, you know, I was this diva up the front, and behind me, people were pulling their pants down and running around like fucking idiots.
I remember this night and I think maybe it was Work Song.
Maynard: Work Song, which is on the album.
Jacqueline: I was in the middle of the stage and they were packed to the rafters. When we played, it’s really hard to explain what a Castanet Club audience was like, because the Castanet club audience was the show. We were the ancillary to the audience.
I remember this night we were playing Work Song and I really deeply got into it. It used every part of my range, I was like the biggest show off diva.
It was incredibly taxing to sing this song and a really hard song to sing. I always wanted to sing it at the absolute max. Every time I wanted to do it better and to show off a little bit more. So I remember I would do a lot.
On the stage it was always very quiet at the start. Then it built as a song and as the sax solo built, everybody went fricken crazy on the stage.
I can remember I closed my eyes and I know it sounds weird, and I wasn’t on drugs or drinking, but I left my body. This really happened. I think it a rarely, rarely happens in anyone’s life, but I actually left my body.
I’m floating outside my body looking down at us on stage because I think I was singing so beautifully that night. I’d gotten myself to another level of singing and I moved out of my body.
I’m sitting there, I’m watching, I mean, oh my God! Oh my God! I’m having this experience. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. I was probably hyperventilating.
Maynard: I’m suggesting medically perhaps it was a minor oxygen deprivation going on.
Jacqueline: Of course, I know that NOW. In retrospect it was, but at that time it was transcendental. Then I came back into my body….
I remember opening my eyes and I’m thinking “what the F did anybody see that?” And you all had your pants down and were running around like crazy people around me. Nobody even fucking noticed that I was out of my body and floating around.
I was in another time zone and you’re all doing your own shit and going about knocking things over and bumming each other or whatever you were doing, it was crazy. That was a moment of knowing I’m truly alone on this stage. Really like, look at me with these bunch of idiots. I’m truly alone on this stage.
Maynard: Another thing you did in the band, you, were one of the main bass players.
Jacqueline: Well, I was the funky ass bass player Maynard. Let’s get that correct.
Maynard: What songs were you laying down the funk to?
Jacqueline: Every song I played mate. I love the bass. I’ve said to my students over the many years, if you want to be sexy, you play the bass.
Maynard: Because you’d have the evening gown and you’d be playing the bass. The fez too.
Jacqueline: Castanets is why I started playing bass. Did I ever tell you how I joined the Castanet Club.
Maynard: No.
Jacqueline: Well, I was a special guest, so I used to come along as special guest with my piano player, Vince. We would come and do my version of many songs, jazz songs and that’s where I started Wuthering Heights with him. Whenever we played, it went off.
So you guys, when you were going to the Edinburgh Festival in 1984, who is your bass player? Pete
Maynard:Pete Mahony, otherwise known as Mr Urstwhile.
Jacqueline: Urstwhile had decided he wasn’t going to go. He decided he wasn’t going to be in the Castanet Club anymore.
He left the band momentarily. You guys contacted me. And you said, because I played guitar because I’d been a singer around town and I played guitar quite well, They asked if I played bass? I said, ah, okay, Yes, I can play bass. I mean, it’s just a four string guitar after all….
Maynard: Which for anybody in the entertainment game, that is exactly the answer you always give. Can you juggle and ride a unicycle? Sure! Because you get more work that way.
Jacqueline: So they said, we’ll find you a bass so you can learn all the songs. They found me a bass from Bart Fox.
Maynard: Bass player with Musical Flags and first Castanet Club bass player.
Jacqueline: He had a bass and they gave me his bass. Now I knew nothing about the bass electric guitar at that stage. And I did not realise that the action of a bass electric guitar shouldn’t be five inches from the neck. It was an impossible guitar to play, but I didn’t know.
So I’ll learnt the whole Castanet Club repertoire on this unplayable bass. I must’ve had muscle fingers because I don’t know how I did it. So I learnt the whole repertoire and I went in and they said, “oh, Pete’s changed his mind. He’s going to go”. So I was ousted, but when you came back, he left and then, because I think I’d been such a hit at the club and you wanted to get a female singer in permanently.
I think Glenn approached me and Angela approached me and I asked if I’d want to join. And I did join. So I actually became the bass player.
Maynard: Wearing a full evening dress and playing the bass. It’s not look you see very often outside of a Bryan Ferry clip.
Jacqueline: Thank you. Well, my costumes were made by a friend of mine, John Parks.
I had a costumier.
Maynard: The rest of us just went into second hand places.
Jacqueline: I lived in pyjamas, I only wore pyjamas. I think at that stage in my life, like all of us, we all wore secondhand clothes, but we decided that Nastassja Bassi should be sexy and slinky and gorgeous.
We had long conversations about how I would look. It was like Madonna, but not. I don’t know if anybody noticed it, but you obviously did. I wore the pillbox hat, the fez hats, the square pillbox hat.
Maynard: Everyone had their own different style. Yours was certainly there.
Jacqueline: I got every bit of la’me from every second hand shop in Newcastle I could find. John went on to lecture at Edith Cowan, Western Australia. He’s still an artist, still does work.
Maynard: That’s the thing with the Castanet Club that has been pointed out. A lot of people are still working as artists even now.
You’ve got a great singing career. You’re working on a PhD. You’ve had some really interesting success in Germany.
Jacqueline: I went to art school. The thing about the Castanet Club, I think it was that perfect apex of the underbelly of Newcastle. We had the theatre and the music and we knew so many people from art school was Jodi and me and Therese and Michael.
It was a perfect fusion of the incredible and exciting things that happened in Newcastle.
Maynard: That group of people would use words like “signifier”, I only found out what that meant last week.
Jacqueline: I’m using that in my PhD, actually. I did film at university. I don’t know if you remember. I used to make all the super eight films for the Castanet Club.
Maynard: Did you do The Last Milkshake In Town?
Jacqueline: The very first film we made. I’ve got a couple of people to help me because I was in it. We used to start every show with a super eight film.
Maynard: That’s right. It would have us all jumbling up the letters of Castanet Club or running around. Remember the one where we’re all diving off the blocks at Merewether Baths?
Jacqueline: Recently, when the documentary for the Castanet exhibition Glen Dormand was saying to me, he thinks that the band was very theatrical. I said, actually, I believe that the Castanet Club was cinematic because I think we were all influenced by the Saturday afternoon movies we watched.
Maynard: We all had our own movie going on in our heads.
Jacqueline: It definitely did. It was the Busby Berkeley kind of “let’s put on a show”, Judy Garland and that was the thing. I mean, it was. Let’s put on a show, you know, it did come across perhaps as musical, but I think more than anything, we were cinematic. We viewed ourselves in a cinematic way. We’d started every half with the super eight film. I did an animation where we all went to the moon. So I had all the little characters and we got into the rocket and I did it in stop motion.
I did it in the fireplace at Dulwich Hill, Bowling Man went to the moon. I did that stuff.
I’ve gone on and done my own thing. Cabaret shows by myself with piano players. And I ended up in Berlin in the late eighties.
Maynard ; Just like the Hoff
Jacqueline: Just like the Hoff. They kept saying to me, you got to come to Berlin. They’ll really get you in Berlin. They’ll love you.
Maynard: There is something incredibly Weimar Republic about you. Here’s your cabaret, but I will kill you.
Jacqueline: Thank you for that. Ah, yeah. Very Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Wile, I was a bit obsessed with German cabaret when I was a kid.
I didn’t have any idea what they were saying, but I just loved the emotion of it. Weimar cabaret.
Maynard: By the way, if you are watching the movie Cabaret, stop the movie after Money Makes The World Go Around. The movie’s over after that, because you don’t want to get to “tomorrow belongs to us”. It gets sad after Money Makes The World Go Around, you might be tempted to watch more of the film. Don’t.
Jacqueline: In the little brief clip I saw from the documentary on the Castanet Club, Stephen makes the comment that we were Punk. But we were Weimar Cabaret. Which is what we were in that kind of strange post Whitlam Liberal government era, which was shit when they were bringing fees back in for education, all that stuff.
Maynard: We were concerned with the fact that we’d be killed in a nuclear war, which makes Global Warming a bit lame in some ways.
Jacqueline: Yeah. This was an industrial city. So every day you’d go out and you’d cough up a bucket load of coal. You’d hang out, you’re washing in Newcastle and you knew where the breeze was blowing from depending on what colour the washing was when you brought it in.
Maynard: In some ways the environment in Newcastle has got better.
Jacqueline: Yeah, it definitely has. And there’s that constant hum from Kooragang Island that I hear.
Maynard: I love it when the guy leans on the boat horn at three in the morning. What the hell are you doing? Do you need to wake up everyone in Newcastle?
Jacqueline: We moved to Sydney. I think that changed all our lives.
Maynard: It did. It certainly changed my life for the better forever. I remember how we used to rehearse on a regular basis. A number of times a week in Redfern.
Jacqueline: Because we were on a retainer. We would go there every day and it was like a job. Every day we’d work out bits and we’d sit around drinking coffee.
Maynard: Out of that came a lot of great things. And also we were attempting to earn for each other $250 a week, which you were able to live on then in Sydney.
Jacqueline: It was a retainer and we were a cooperative and I’ve been in lots of cooperative things since. That idea that we are all equal. She says, did you see me rolling my eyes? All equal in the eyes of God. Did you see me rolling my eyes? That way we could actually pay ourselves a living wage as performers as we rehearsed in Redfern.
Maynard: Our gigs at the Harold Park Hotel were was a great time. There was just so many of us crammed on stage there. Audiences often looked very surprised as when we were going off, doing a number like Work Song or when an Angela and Glen Keenan would do their dancing.
They would take up the whole stage with their great forties dancing. There’s just moments where they couldn’t believe what they were seeing. Believe you me listener. It was amazing to be part of a group that can do that to an audience.
Jacqueline: This was what I found. Like somebody like Stephen, who I worked with post Castanets, I’m still on a stage with a guy doing the same shit he’s been doing for 30 years. But it doesn’t really matter because I find him mesmerising. Next to brilliance, as far as I’m concerned, Warren and Stephen are genius. I think the essence of the second coming of the Castanet Club, the one that I was a part of, Stephen and Warren, were this kind of genius force in the middle, because they were freaky, freaky as.
Maynard: Please people have a look at the Castanet Club documentary teaser, and the full length version that is going to be online in coming months. The thing that made me smile the most, cause I’d never seen it, was the photo of Warren Coleman with his Academy Award. I knew he’d won one and I saw him with it and I couldn’t stop smiling. So happy for him. That was my favourite part of the whole documentary.
Jacqueline: How proud of are we Warren? I think it was the youngest person ever taken into NIDA. His comedy was inside out. It was critical thinking, it was sideways, it was roundabout. Blew my fucking head off. Do you remember that Warren grew up thinking he was an alien?
Maynard: Yes, and he ended up playing one on stage.
Jacqueline: He was obsessed with the NASA stuff. He was a NASA expert. I think I remember him saying that he believed that the aliens would come and pick him up one day and that they just popped him with those people who were pretending to be his parents. If you start the Warren Coleman story there, then you get it.
Maynard: If we could finish off with a song, would you like me to play Wuthering Heights? or Work Song? The 24 bit remastered version?
Jacqueline: God play them both. They’re both pretty interesting works. Wuthering Heights, didn’t go on the album and it’s something that still, I don’t understand.
Maynard: The reason is that you could only fit 47 minutes on the vinyl album.
Jacqueline: There were political reasons why it didn’t go on the album. I mean, why would you have somebody doing a cover of Wuthering Heights, and an awesome cover and not put it on the album? When you put other stuff on the album.
Maynard: Me doing the Broadway medley?
Jacqueline: Why do you make an album? You make an album as memorabilia. You make an album as merchandise, or you make an album to do something with. I truly believe that if we put Wuthering Heights on that album, it would have taken the Castanet Club somewhere else. I think it would have been a single, it was great. I listened to it when you put it up the other day, of course, I haven’t heard me sing that. I haven’t heard that. So to hear my voice as a 22 year old kid singing that song in that voice, I blew myself away and I thought, that is fucking awesome. It’s a quintessential version of a song that was already a quintessential.
How could you make it better? It was way too fast. It’s super fast. It’s like, we’re just rushing to get to the end. Work Song was the same, but I listened to it. It’s the poignancy of things that we did.
It’s the poignancy of somebody like Johnny singing those, saddest guys on earth songs that were so heart tugging and gorgeous. How could you not fall in love with it?
It was a beautiful reflection of where we grew up, at the time we grew up, with the culture we grew up with. And to put Wuthering Heights in there, it was incredible to sing. I’m a huge Kate Bush fan. I mean, she changed the world.
The acrobatics of that song are so incredible because nobody had ever heard anybody sing like Kate Bush. There were a few pretenders that came along after that, but it was one of the few times that a record label actually said to a female singer, fuck, you could do whatever you want.
That’s what happens when you say to a female singer of that calibre that you can do whatever you want. So she was signed in as a 17 year old, and that was her first single, you know, I grew up listening to jazz and stuff, but as a singer, there’s nobody like Kate Bush and that changed my life. To then go on and sing it and to be inside that vocal, to be inside the story, to be inside of that female vocal, I never heard anybody sing like that.
Maynard: Let’s have a listen to you using that. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you and to find out what was going on and what has gone on.
Jacqueline: I did a lot of stuff in Germany, I still go to Germany. I’m there a lot, except for COVID. I hate COVID shit.
Maynard: What’s your favourite German phrase?
Jacqueline: Quickly, quickly in your head. It’s East German. I said “cheers big ears”. All my friends laughed, and this guy said, “quickly, quickly in your head’ (in German).
Maynard: Please follow Jacqueline, wherever you can have a look at her Bandcamp, have a look at her Soundcloud.
Jacqueline: Thanks Maynard. It’s really lovely seeing you. Thank you for inviting me over. Why haven’t we been seeing each other more?
The Castanet Club 1985
Maynard: Well, we are on the opening day of the Castanet Club exhibit at the Newcastle Museum, and I’ve been having a really good look around here. We’ve got over 900 photos on three screens. We’ve got every different iteration of the Castanet Club represented, and there are even vinyl, 12 inch albums for sale.
We have Jacqueline. What do you reckon? What’s it like seeing yourself as large as life on the screen there on the stage again?
Jacqueline: I never realised my resolution was so low. I thought I was high resolution, but obviously I’m wrong. The pixel count on that is low.
Maynard: You had the luminous halter neck top on. That was quite a good idea for a sweaty show.
Jacqueline: Really? I had shit hot body didn’t I. But I was 12 at the time. Skin tight as well. I was zipped into them and zipped out of them.
Maynard: As part of the exhibition there’s a recreation of a share house in Cooks Hill, which includes gaffer tape on the sofa and an eighties television with standard resolution, which is currently playing 104 Bull Street, Cooks Hill, the controversial track off Johnny Goodman’s album.
Anything you’ve seen here that you’d forgotten about? I mean, there’s a lot of photos I actually took on the photo walls there, that I’d forgotten I’d taken.
Jacqueline: It’s nice to see the back of the Castanet Club album blown up. I forgot that description of my character. That’s interesting.
Maynard: And nothing’s changed. “Likes to stay up late. Sings like a dream”.
Jacqueline: There you go.
Jane Adam & Jacqueline Amidy film Lance Norton & Maynard for The Last Milkshake in Town, 1983. Newcommon Street, Newcastle.
